Max Smith: Getting paid in food & finding your niche

10 Aug

INTRODUCTION

Max Smith is a 23-year old photographer, currently working as a Lighting Technician, based in London - where you’ll find him wandering around, capturing his surroundings! His practice has evolved over the years from commercial advertising to portraits and now predominantly analogue medium. He started photography in his early teens before going on to graduate from the University of Portsmouth with a degree in photography in 2018.

This interview took place at The Barbican Centre, London, March 2020, just before the Coronavirus pandemic forced the UK into lockdown.

internships & finding work

What was your first internship like?

The company was connecting brands to influencers for marketing. So a brand would come to them and say “we’ve got this new product and we want you to get an influencer to promote it and create all the content for it”. My job was to create a big database of influencers and reach out to them to shoot together. It was a bit shit because I didn’t get paid [laughing] but it was good experience.

We worked on a “if you get the lead, you get the shoot” basis. So all the people I contacted I ended up shooting with. But we’d spend hours just scrolling through Instagram to build up the database of people to contact.

Was this between second and third year at uni?

Yeah it was for one of my third year units at university. We had to do two weeks of work experience which we found ourselves. I just emailed a load of companies, probably 30 places in total and they were the only ones that got back to me!

The placement was only two weeks, but even finding that was stressful. There wasn’t even much pressure, but it was still hard. I wasn’t really bothered about what it was, I knew I just had to get anything I could really!

I was quite lucky though, because the point was really to make contacts and network. The two main guys that I worked for, I am still actually in contact with now. It was all new for me but I fell into it quite nicely. It definitely broadened my skills and influenced a lot of my work afterwards. In my third year was when I started my website and began working on my Instagram, it all stemmed from what I learnt during the internship.

How was it finding work after university?

I knew it was going to be hard, so whilst at uni I was looking for jobs before I finished. I used the contacts that I made from my work experience just to try and find something. I’ve never been someone to not be working. I’ve had loads of shit jobs in the past like working at LEGOLAND® and Clintons Cards. I think there’s a big misconception when first going to university, people think you can just turn up, get your degree and then walk into a job, it’s not as easy as that.

“I think there’s a big misconception when first going to university, people think you can just turn up, get your degree and then walk into a job, it’s not as easy as that.”

Has anyone ever asked you what grades you got at university?

No [laughing], no one has ever asked me what grades I got.

What was it like when you first started working in the industry post-graduation?

About a month after graduation, I started working at a photography company who specialise in events. It sounded like a standard job but when I started I was taking pictures for really high-end brands like Burberry, YouTube and Google. It was mind blowing at the time and I was thinking “how have I just fallen into this?!”. It was really good, but towards the end I actually didn’t enjoy it as much. I think it just wasn’t for me. The whole commercial photography field is great because you can make a lot of money and build a great portfolio but in the end, I didn’t enjoy it as much. You meet people who you don’t necessarily get along with.

There are people that love doing commercial work, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I didn’t want to get stuck in that rut of doing something I didn’t enjoy just for the money and then not being able to leave or move on.

Was there a key turning point that made you decide to leave?

It was more personal for me. The turning point was a job for a high-end art auction house. The people there were multi-millionaires who treated us all like shit. To them you’re nothing. There was a woman arguing with her husband, wanting to buy a painting and he said “I’ve already given you £80,000” and she replied “I only need another £40,000 for this one”. That was the breaking point. I asked myself, do I really want to be doing this? I knocked a glass of champagne on someone as well [laughs]. I just didn’t enjoy the commercial attitude of “this is how it is and how it has to be”. I needed more freedom.

What did you do after leaving?

I decided to focus on my freelance work and had to find ways of bringing in money. I ended up labouring for my friend and doing little jobs just to make ends meet. It helps to know what you want to do and it’s important to set your goals high. Having something to work towards gives you direction. Even if you never reach that goal or it takes you longer than you’d hoped, it’s all about the journey and what you have learnt along the way.

“Having something to work towards gives you direction. Even if you never reach that goal or it takes you longer than you’d hoped, it’s all about the journey and what you have learnt along the way. ”

FREELANCing

How do you get work as a freelance photographer?

It depends on what kind of photographer you want to be. If you want to be freelance I think the best way is to start off by assisting. When I was freelance and had months of not finding work, I used to do everything I could to find work. I have done loads of jobs for free just for the experience. But you get to that point thinking, “how many times can I keep doing this?” People will always take what you can offer for free if they can.

How do you assess what work you would do for free and what you would charge for?

Honestly, I’m still working that out. For friends I will do a lot for free. But then they keep coming back asking for more and it’s really difficult to say no, or to even mention money. It’s important to look at who is asking. If you know the client can afford to pay you then make sure they do. The first couple of times I did freelance jobs I didn’t know how to answer people when they asked how much I charge. But now I would suggest doing a bit of digging into the client and then charge higher than you think. If they say “no” but they want to work with you, then you can find a respectable middle ground.

What’s your opinion on getting paid in exposure?

Sometimes it is genuinely good, especially when you are starting off. Having a respectable name on your portfolio is worth something.

You can’t pay rent in exposure though! [laughing]

[Laughing] No you can’t, that is very true. You have to think logically about it sometimes.

There were times when I was actively looking for jobs and would approach people asking if they needed a photographer. They would often say “yes”, but not have any budget. So you are back to square one again. Other companies might then approach me with a “great opportunity” and offer “exposure”, but as soon as you hear that word you know they aren’t going to offer any money.

It really depends on whether it inspires you or you see potential in what could come out of it, right?

Yeah, if I wanted to be a portrait photographer and a restaurant asked me to come and shoot pictures of their food for free I would say no. It doesn’t help me with the bigger picture. If someone wanted me to take some model portraits for free I would probably say yes. It’s all about building a portfolio that will help you get the work you really want.

How do you set your freelance rates?

Without trying to take the piss, you can look at what other people charge. You can Google what standard rates are for different types of photographers. For me, I like to accurately work out how much time it’s going to take me. If I’m taking 1000 photos and I know I’m going to have to go through them all and edit them, I want to get paid for that time.

I’ve worked with established photographers who charge silly amounts of money. They rock up to a shoot where their assistant has set everything up, all the lights and computers and that then they’ll just press the button.

How do you find the business side of your work? Is it a burden to deal with?

Things like invoicing was never really a burden because this is how I make money. If I don’t do it then I won't get paid. Being self employed is quite hard though. Keeping track of everything, completing self assessments, I’ve never been taught these skills properly. It can also really affect you in the future. Getting a mortgage for example, your salary is not as clear as a standard full time job, making it tricker to get approved.

What kind of freelance work have you done just for the money then?

I actually got a really good few months working for Uber Eats, taking pictures of food for restaurants. All they needed was five pictures, typically four different dishes and then one shot all together. I would rock up at these random restaurants where they would have everything ready for me, it would take me 10 minutes at most to do the shots.

You still got paid though right? They weren’t paying you in food?!

Sometimes they did actually let me eat the food which was nice. But I was getting like £100 a job! I think I did four jobs in one day and it took me about two hours. That was a good couple months. These sorts of things don’t stay round for long though.

So that’s the thing, these jobs aren’t massively enjoyable but they pay really well. You can then use that money to potentially buy some new kit. You have to weigh it against the bigger picture.

Exactly. Also, if I do get a really good opportunity to do some food photography that I would enjoy, then I have some experience and work to show people in my portfolio. I have got so many different types of pictures now, I can put a portfolio together for pretty much anything if I wanted to. I never really focused on one thing whilst at uni, I always tried to keep my options open and tried everything I could.

I always compared taking pictures to when I used to skateboard. I was a little kid and everywhere I went I would be looking for spots and think that would be such a good place to skate. Now when I’m out I’m always thinking, “oh that would be such a great picture”. I would make notes of places, time of day and when the light is really nice for example and then go back there. On my way to work I sit looking out the window and spot things everyday, I'll write it down and think, “oh yeah i’ll go there someday”.

I think that's such an important trait to have whatever type of creative you are. To be actively looking and being curious, taking a moment to observe your surroundings.

Yeah it does make you appreciate your surroundings. It’s always important to appreciate the work of others too. I’ve met people who hate everyone's work apart from their own. What I have learnt to accept is that there will always be people who are better than you. It’s like you said about comparing yourself to others. Trying to learn from those people is the best way to look at it.

“What I have learnt to accept is that there will always be people who are better than you. Trying to learn from those people is the best way to look at it.”

Would you say it’s important to specialise in something early on?

If you’re a good allrounder I guess you don’t have to apply for one specific job, you can apply for various. I think finding something that you enjoy is more important. You can do all sorts of photography but if there is something you enjoy then focus on that.

Just don’t worry about it too much I guess. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves. I constantly thought I had to be at a certain level or be at a certain studio for me to progress.

Sometimes you end up where you’ve always wanted to be and find the people you work with there aren’t actually that happy.

Final thoughts

The best advice I can give is to meet as many different people as you can. Go to events, talks, workshops and just meet people. Because one day something will come out of it.

Recommended reading

Read This If You Want To Take Great Photographs of Places by Henry Carroll

Recommended listening

The Film Photography Podcast by Michael Raso

Recommended follow

@ihoworth

Follow Max

Instagram: @_mhjs

Twitter: @_mhjs

Website: www.maxhj.com

If you’d like to reach out to Max, DM him on Instagram or drop him an email to: max@maxhj.com